Literal study: “most of rhe propaganda on social media comes from private companies”

Lemmitors “ThE pRoBlEm Is RuZzIa”

Keep blaming a third country for all your endogenous problems.

I mean putting Nazis in reeducation camps compulsorily. The problem is that normally, Nazis tend to get propped into power by capitalists, and the historical way to remove them from power is through socialist revolution.

Not trolling at all. The USSR saved TENS OF MILLIONS of lives from Nazi genocide in Eastern Europe alone. Nazis wanted to carry out Generalplan Ost and eliminate or enslave all population between Germany and the Urals. The only reason why they were stopped was thanks to the massive efforts of the Soviet Industrial Revolution which was kickstarted in 1929, when the country’s economy recovered from the devastation of the Russian Civil War, in which the “allies” (UK, Canada, Australia, Japan, USA, France, Poland…) Invaded the country unprovoked and unilaterally for the sin of being communist.

Life expectancy in Soviet Russia was 27 years of age by the 1929 economic recovery. Thirty years later, life expectancy had risen to 67 years of age. For comparison, Brazil, which didn’t go through an all-destroying civil war and an even more all-destroying world war 2 (25 million Soviet deaths by Nazism), had a life expectancy of 36 in 1930, and by 1960 it was merely 53. The revolution in agriculture, industry and medicine in the USSR saved, by any reasonable metric, tens of millions lives more than any comparable capitalist country at the time, and that’s not counting that they would have become a Nazi colony and either slaves or exterminated.

Before WWII Soviet regime decided that Ukrainians don’t deserve to exist and killed millions in Holodomor

“Holodomor” is a new term, propagandized recently to create the false narrative that Ukrainians were targeted in a famine in the Soviet Union during the land collectivization. There was a big famine in the entire USSR, affecting especially hard in Ukraine, Southern Russia and Kazakhstan, I’m not denying the famine, I’m denying the idea that it was enforced in Ukrainians for some racist reasons. There is no precedent and no followup of mistreatment of Ukrainians in the USSR, there are no documents proving any intent to hurt Ukraine specifically, and there was no motive to do so, it’s used as a propaganda element to radicalize people against Communism now that sentiments towards Ukraine are reasonably high.

If you care about Ukrainian lives, which you seem to do, you’d be better off doing anti-capitalist propaganda. Capitalism brought hunger, drugs, unemployment, violence, crime, suicide and alcoholism to unprecedented levels in Ukraine. Massive emigrations, low birthrates, high mortality and finally war, have brought on Ukraine a horrifying [demographic crisis]. Between the dissolution of the USSR in 1990 and the war in Ukraine, Ukraine had already lost 7 million people to the causes cited above. As it stands now, there are an estimated 28 million citizens in Ukraine, from the peak of 52 million in 1990. I agree that Ukraine is a land that has been fucked over in the ass repeatedly in history, first during Tsarism and the Russian Empire, then during Nazi invasion, and finally during capitalist restoration. I hope we can both condemn the three processes above in their scope of murdering millions of innocent Ukrainians.

All of the achievements of the USSR, including the saving of tens of millions of people from genocide, starvation and disease, were carried out in a unique way in history: without participating in colonialism. The USSR had no colonies in Africa, in South America or in Asia, in the same way that UK, France or USA did during their industrial development. The modern western countries enjoy a high (albeit constantly worsening) standard of living because they stand on the backs of billions in the global south. For every French with free healthcare and education, there are 10 Indians, Ethiopians and Pakistanis starving. I’m glad your life is materially better in some ways now than it was 50 years ago, but this is entirely on the backs of the global south.

What exactly did you think I meant by “forcibly reeducated” if not rehabilitated in prison?

Buddy, who supplied the half the rifles and 90% of ammo that the ruskies used on the Eastern Front?

Why are you so obsessed with Russians and invisibilizing the heroic contribution of the rest of ethnicities? Are you an anti-Ukrainian nazi? Also, you’re literally making up the numbers, the most manufactured and used tank in WW2 was the Soviet T-34. The contributions by the USA were measurable and necessary and they deserve the appropriate praise, but you’re denying history by saying the soviets didnt win the war.

allowing USSR to actually start pushing back?

Wrong. The victory in Stalingrad and the pushing of Nazis to the west happened well before the opening of the western front by the USA. You’re literally lying here.

You mean the atrocities of political purges, the elimination of intelligentsia and military officers

Oh no, the poor military officers of (presumably Poland), they were just good guys when they happily invaded Ukraine and Belarus in 1918 and when they annexed Czechoslovakia with the Nazis.

the russification

Bullshit. Everyone in Uzbekistan speaks Uzbek, people in Mari El studied in Mari, people in Poland studied in Polish, people in Lithuania studied in Lithuanian, as proven by the fact that those are still the primary languages and cultures in their respective regions (except possibly Mari because the capitalist Russian Federation doesn’t respect multi ethnicity). Stop making up shit. If you’re so concerned with the assimilation of peoples, go open a campaign for the rights of Occitanian people, they had 1+mn speakers in 1920 and they’re barely 100k nowadays. THAT’S what cultural assimilation looks like.

the hunger and millions dead

Life expectancy skyrocketed under Soviet policy. Life expectancy was of 27 fucking years when the Soviets got into power, and by 1960, it was above 60 years old. The policy of rapid industrialization and land collectivization literally saved millions of lives. Again, if you care so much about the “millions of deaths” in Eastern Europe, why don’t you complain about the millions of deaths from capitalist restoration? Millions died in the Eastern Block when capitalism arrived: defunding of healthcare, hunger, drug abuse, unemployment, alcoholism, suicide and violent crime were the norm all over Eastern Europe since 1990. Blame fucking capitalism for what it did.

USSR == russia

You’re literally a Ukrainian-hating nationalist. Gorbachev was Ukrainian and so was Brezhnev, the presidents for the longest time in the Soviet Union were Ukrainian.

I don’t have respect to those that raped and pillaged the entire way to Berlin

Literal Nazi propaganda. Seeing how you hate Ukrainians and how you’re spewing Nazi bullshit, I have no choice but to conclude you’re a polish Nazi. I’m surprised you’re not siding with Putin, he’s killing hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians in the name of capitalism.

I’m not going to respond to you anymore because I dont debate Nazis. Have fun responding to me and malding

Saving Eastern Europe from Nazi extermination is as bad as universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, the elimination of unemployment, universal right to housing and abolition of homelessness, and the doubling of life expectancy from the Tsarist Empire to 1960.

The fact that you’re even questioning that the USSR defeated Nazism proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. 80% of dead Nazi soldiers were thanks to the eastern front. 25 million Soviet lives were eliminated in the struggle against fascism.

I’m from one of the countries that suffered massive atrocities under the bastards

Oh no, the atrocities of universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, industrialization, guaranteed employment and the abolishment of homelessness. What a horrifying regime. Eastern Europe is so much better now that capitalism returned and you have wars again. I bet my ass your childhood was after 1990 and you’re just repeating capitalist anticommunist propaganda.

I suppose you don’t understand the difference between war and peace?

There is no peace with Nazis, they only understand genocide and invasion.

the bullshit you’re saying about russians

I didn’t say the word “Russians” in my previous comment. I mentioned the USSR being the reason why Nazis didn’t exterminate your ethnicity, but the USSR was a plurinational state composed of many ethnicities. Many Ukrainians, Belarusians, Uzbeki, Kazakh, and many of the nationalities of Russia such as Bashkir, Slavic Russians or Mari gave their lives defending your family from Nazism. Have some respect for all the brave soldiers who fought so that you can spew bullshit online today.

Good luck debating Nazis. The USSR famously defeated them, BTW, you can thank them for being alive today if you’re European.

I suppose you decry the violence that the USA exerted on Nazi Germany?

Nazis are people who need to be forcibly reeducated, and the only way to get there historically is through violence.

You claim I haven’t read the papers, yet you’re confusing social mobility (not mentioned in the paper) with residential mobility (the one referenced). From the study you linked:

In addition, reduced housing mobility stemming from rent control can lead to decreased labor mobility

Housing mobility or residential mobility is a distinct concept, and you’re either not reading or misunderstunding. It’s what I referred to when I talked about evictions. The article is even explicit about it:

This mismatch can lead to situations where, for instance, an elderly widow remains in a large rent-controlled apartment long after her family has moved out, while larger households are desperately looking for homes of an appropriate size

This is explicitly about evicting people so that others can move in, that’s literally what “residential mobility” means, and it’s the mobility that the study is referring to, not social mobility as in ascending in income.

Educate yourself, lib

Literally no. You have the far right going crazy all over Europe and half of Latin America, unaffordable housing and ever-decreasing social services everywhere, and the practical entirety of Africa, India, Southeast Asia and again Latin America are doing anything but just fine

Yeah, if it weren’t for NATO making EU subservient to the US, it would have been invaded by them.

The greatest human invention murdered hundreds of millions through colonialism?

Almost as if I had already given answer to those points in my previous comment about supply of housing (Buenos Aires example) or reduced construction (publicly driven construction) and you just refused to address those points! I explicitly said rent control is a band-aid and I gave solutions to literally every “problem” you brought up in the study such as higher rent for uncontrolled units (control them all), lower mobility (that’s a good thing meaning people get evicted less), and reduced residential construction (can be solved by public construction and has historically been solved like that).

Half of your original claim was that it does nothing to solve rent prices, and your own source claims that you’re wrong on that, and you have the ballz to be here questioning my sourcing abilities lmao

Your original claim:

Rent control does NOT control prices

Your source:

rent control appears to be very effective in achieving lower rents for families in controlled units

You are very smart

Cry me a river, landlord bootlicker

Source: Dude, trust me

I literally provided a source lmfao

I know that you just linked the very first link on google

I did not, I’ve read the whole exchange between Nitzan and Bichler and Cockshott, he has many videos on his YouTube channel talking about LVT and empirical demonstrations, and you can go through the references of the paper I sent such as the Zacchariah multi-country study.

Third of all, nobody ever responds to response papers

That would be a good point if LVT wasn’t an extremely politically important point. If neoliberal economists had any sort of empirical proof showing otherwise, they’d be more than happy to share it, but there are no studies in the academia providing this. Please search them for me if you will.

As for references for why you’re wrong, you can go through Albert Szymanski’s “human rights in the Soviet Union”, Robert B Allen’s “Farm to Factory”, Pat Sloan’s “Soviet Democracy” or Alec Nove’s “economic history of the USSR” (paraphrasing the title of the last one because I read it long ago). You can go through my comment history and find references to all of those books if you want, but I have nothing to prove to you.

you’re not able to provide sources

I gave you a summary paper collecting references several studies on labour theory of value, that’s already more evidence than you have provided. When you actually bring up sources to the conversation you may change my mind and make me do the effort, but you won’t do that I bet.

You can do both, I don’t see the problem with doing anticapitalist propaganda on the internet, it’s probably what pushed me most towards organizing

I don’t know why you keep bringing up the word “ideal”. Marxists are opposed to idealism, we’re staunch materialists. Saying that “things change over time and place” doesn’t automatically negate historical examples , and following those historical examples doesn’t imply not achieving progressive victories over time.

You claim to follow the path that works, but that’s what the western left has been following for the past 50 years and look where that led us.

You’re describing the Soviet model of housing. Flats were often assigned by the union of the worker, and the rent dues were about 3% of the monthly income, which paid for basic maintenance. Homelessness was eliminated and housing was constantly improved through the construction of literal millions of housing units per year, more than any country at the time.

Urban planning was also cool, organized in so-called “Mikroraion” (microdistricts) with accessibility on-foot to basic services being the core of planning. Green spaces, health centres, childcare and social activities were all within a 15-minute walk (the neighborhoods in most Eastern Block countries retain these features with whatever services haven’t been dismantled in capitalism). Quality affordable public transit (e.g. Moscow metro) also ensured mobility.