• ExFed@programming.dev
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    2 days ago

    Maybe build infrastructure that gets people off the road so you can get to work on time.

    Last I checked a bike takes up less space than a car.

    • Platypus@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      Infrastructure isn’t the entirety of the problem. My city is a dense populated core surrounded by a sprawl of suburbs and office parks—tons of people live in the city and commute out to the suburbs for office work. The office areas are too spread out for a transit system to service (we have a decent commuter network, but you’re lucky if your office is close enough to it), so it’s pretty much drive or bust.

      • ExFed@programming.dev
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        2 days ago

        That’s literally all an infrastructure (and infrastructure planning) problem. Designers planned for car-centric infrastructure, so that’s what we got. Sprawl begets sprawl; spreading out destinations means you need more pipes/sewage/electrical/roadway to reach each destination, and roadways are space-inefficient, so the problem compounds.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          2 days ago

          Exactly! When I say “infrastructure,” I mean how they design how people get from A to B. Removing a road and putting buildings in its place to get more density is infrastructure the same way as putting in a bike path or rail line is. It’s all about urban planning and deciding how people will get to their destinations.

      • y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 days ago

        Fuck cars people: “demolish your city and suburbs and build a bike path, it takes 10 minutes and will save you gas money”

          • y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 day ago

            The highway is already there. It’s likely the city was built up around / with it, not the other way around.

            I’m all for less cars and more bikes and it is unfortunate the way cities in the US were built. Making wider bike lanes means either making narrower car lanes or wider general vehicle paths to accommodate both, which is fine when there’s still enough room to do so. Lots of cities have narrow-ish roads that butt up to sidewalks that butt up to buildings. So, you gotta start removing sidewalks and buildings, or make the roads too narrow for cars / trucks / emergency vehicles, etc., just to have a better bike lane.

            Then there is the fact that most small to medium sized (and some even bigger) cities’ current public transportation consists of a few busses at best. You have to be in a huge metro for any kind of train or even consistent non-uber taxi service. Also they only run in the city, where most people work, but not many live. It’s common to live in the suburbs or a rural area 20 - 50 miles away from the place of work, for various reasons, but currently mostly influenced by cost and existing infrastructure.

            Ever tried to bike 50 mi in the rain / snow / 100°F to get to work? Me neither, and it’s not just for lack of bikepaths.

            There are places making efforts to make cities more walkable and bikeable but it takes time and every solution I see from the fuck cars crowd is, "stop living in the suburbs then, move to a city where everything was built perfectly to be walkable and bikable 150 years ago! And if you can’t find one, just destroy all the sidewalks and buildings to accommodate a bike lane and rebuild everything else, I guess. Sell your suburban or country home, change the zoning laws and build a house in an already tightly packed city. Once you’ve done these very easy things, you can bike all the way across town in 100° weather, or take a bus and be an hour early or 30 minutes late to where you need to be. If that’s inconvenient, destroy more buildings or start digging holes and invest in trains!

            In the smaller cities like where I’m originally from it’s also laugable. There arent enough people or roadways for biking to be dangerous and the only thing to bike to is a gas station at the single flashing red light and you’d have to take 3 dirt roads to get to the pavement. There’s no bus, no taxi, no uber, and the nearest town is 30 miles away with nothing in between. But those folks should sell their cars and homes and uproot their entire lives too, because not doing so means they’ll drive to a city to survive, and fuck cars.

    • Pat_Riot@lemmy.today
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      2 days ago

      In the town nearest to me there are bike lanes all over and these dickheads still feel the need to get into traffic lanes and fuck up the flow whilst obeying no traffic laws. Fuck cyclists. Keep your toys out of cars’ way.

      • ExFed@programming.dev
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        2 days ago

        Your ability to violently catapult literal tons of metal and plastic has no weight on their right to use the road. Keep your angry toys out of cyclists way.

        • itztalal@lemmings.world
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          23 hours ago

          Public roads were designed for motor vehicles. It’s dangerous for people to use them with anything that can’t keep up with a car when cars are around.

          • ExFed@programming.dev
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            6 hours ago

            You make it sound like the people behind the wheels of said cars have no choice. They do: slow down and vote for non-car-centric infrastructure. Motor vehicles are in the top ten causes of death, ahead of kidney disease, AIDS, and homicide. We should probably stop forcing ourselves to engage in such an extremely risky activity.

            • itztalal@lemmings.world
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              6 hours ago

              More people need to leave the culture of consumerism behind in order for any meaningful change to happen.

              You can pretend the world is something that it isn’t, but that doesn’t change reality.

              Cyclists are putting themselves and everyone else at a greater risk when they decide to try and share the road with motor vehicles.

              • ExFed@programming.dev
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                3 hours ago

                More people need to leave the culture of consumerism behind in order for any meaningful change to happen.

                Probably true. I’m not going to argue; I also feel that consumerism is generally harmful to society.

                Cyclists are putting themselves and everyone else at a greater risk when they decide to try and share the road with motor vehicles. [citation needed]

                I, too, once thought being forced to slow down and pay attention to my surroundings would put people in danger, but I have since grown into an adult with children and neighbors I care about. Why do you think roundabouts are safer and less congested than traffic signals? I’d be extremely unsurprised if road sharing actually made them safer overall.

                • itztalal@lemmings.world
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                  2 hours ago

                  It’s a shame it took you so long to be able to drive responsibly. I learned how to give pedestrians the right of way in driver’s ed.

              • ExFed@programming.dev
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                3 hours ago

                Cyclists are putting themselves and everyone else at a greater risk when they decide to try and share the road with motor vehicles. [citation needed]

                Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. I, too, once thought being forced to slow down and pay attention to my surroundings would put people in danger, but I have since grown into an adult. Why do you think roundabouts are safer and less congested than traffic signals? I’d be extremely unsurprised if road sharing actually made them safer overall.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        Wow, that’s certainly a take…

        Next time, take take a moment and think from their perspective. Do they want to be in the lane with cars? No! That’s scary! So why are they there? Ideas:

        • cars parked in the bike lane - very common in my area
        • cars passing uncomfortably close and not giving the required 3’/1m space
        • cars consistently nosing into the bike lane from parking lots

        And BTW, the law in most places state that bikes follow the same laws as cars, they just need to stay to the right of the roadway (i.e. the part before the bike lane). That means they’re entitled to be in that right lane if they feel it’s safer than the bike lane.

        • arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          2 days ago

          I don’t drive, but tbh I don’t like cyclists much either. On top of often doing stuff like riding right on the line for the bike lane with tons of space in the actual lane, they frequently don’t stop for pedestrians and just blow through crosswalks (and sometimes stop signs/lights). I’ve also seen cyclists ride on the relatively narrow sidewalk despite there being a bike lane.

          It’s possible this is less of a problem elsewhere. It also doesn’t help that there are a lot of e-bikes where I currently live.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            I’ve also been frustrated with some cyclists, especially now that ebikes have lowered the barrier and brought the uninformed masses onto the streets.

            Here are the relevant laws in my area, just in case some of it is relevant to what you’re seeing:

            • stop-light - must stop, but may proceed if the light is obviously not recognizing you (local law is 90sec, but I’ve seen anything from 60-120)
            • stop sign - treated as a yield, which means stop of there’s contention, but only slow if there aren’t other cars
            • sidewalk - not for cyclists, and cyclists must yield to pedestrians if they use it; cyclists should use the road
            • bike lane - not technically part of the roadway, and the law states that cyclists should stay within 3’ (1m) of the roadway unless there are obstructions; likewise, cars must give cyclists 3’ of space, so cyclists will often “take the lane” (be in the middle) of they’re not getting that space
            • crosswalks - treated as cars (must wait behind) or pedestrians (if crossing the road with pedestrians)

            In short, cyclists:

            • may use the crosswalk, but must yield to pedestrians (and cycling 15mph would certainly present a hazard and could be ticketed)
            • may use the roads, but need to stay within 3’ of the edge (not including bike lane of shoulder) unless there are obstructions
            • may yield at stop signs and treat stoplights as stop signs if they don’t change for the cyclist
            • arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone
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              2 days ago

              Those laws seem pretty similar, they just get ignored super often lol. I imagine part of the problem is you can just pick up a bike and ride without getting a specific license, unlike with cars/motorcycles (not that drivers of those don’t break the law), so I’m guessing a significant number of people don’t even know all the rules they’re supposed to follow and just do whatever they feel like.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                2 days ago

                That’s exacerbated by ebikes. They’re inexpensive, fast, and require virtually no physical effort, so people ride them everywhere. Before ebikes became so available, only very dedicated people would take them on the road, and everyone else treated them as toys.

                If you look, I’ll bet 9/10 of those breaking the laws are on an ebike. Look for thick down tube (connects handle to pedal), a visible battery pack, or absolutely no pedaling. A lot of those should probably be registered as scooters, which do require a license, because people frequently don’t actually pedal on them and instead cruise at 20mph+ (>30kph).

                People who ride regular bikes follow the law a lot more because they’re actual enthusiasts, and thus care about the law. I’d guess most of those (say, 75%) follow the law most of the time, and innocently get lumped in with the people on ebikes.

                • arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone
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                  2 days ago

                  I mean, it was pretty common for cyclists to break the law before e-bikes became popular, although it’s admittedly more common now. It doesn’t really change anything though since e-bikes are not exactly going to go away and the problem isn’t going to be resolved unless they actually do try to enforce licensing for cyclists or something.

        • Pat_Riot@lemmy.today
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          2 days ago

          That doesn’t entitle them to run red lights and weaving in and out of traffic. They do this shit with a free and clear bike lane to their right. They can eat shit.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            For every cyclist I’ve seen that does that, dozens of drivers do the same, and dozens of cyclists don’t. Don’t label the whole based on the actions of a very visible minority.

            That said, “weaving in and out of traffic” is legal in many places and called “filtering.” The idea is to get to the front where drivers are more likely to see you, cross the intersection without getting run over, and then move to the side of the road to let cars pass. In many cities, they put a special painted area in front of cars at intersections specifically for bikes to enable exactly this behavior.

            Likewise for “running red lights,” there’s also an issue where some lights don’t trigger when a bicycle approaches, and many areas have a law that cyclists may proceed once that’s clear (usually 60-90sec).

            I’m not saying either is what you’re describing, just clarifying what laws typically look like so you can distinguish the legitimate, lawful actions from what also frustrates law-abiding cyclists.

      • Lyra_Lycan@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 days ago

        I agree. In my country, a while ago the government passed a law mandating that cyclists use the same lanes and road laws used by motorists where there are no bike lanes. I can’t stress enough how fucking stupid it is to expect this and to comply with this.

        It’s the governments’ responsibility to build infrastructure for the public to travel. Until they have three tiers of pathing everywhere, cyclists should use the pedestrian paths.

  • philophilsaurus@sh.itjust.works
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    2 days ago

    The funniest part about this is I’m constantly surrounded by cunts on my commute to work but none of them are on bikes.

    Being a cunt isn’t exclusive to your chosen vehicle.

    • MyDarkestTimeline01@ani.socialOP
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      1 day ago

      I mean you can double post if you want, it’s not going to make what you said be anything close to reality. But you seem very well adjusted.

  • remon@ani.social
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    2 days ago

    Why does it have to be car propaganda? I only walk or use public transport and still hate them.