AI has taken more things since it’s big push to be adopted in the public sector.
Clean Air
Water
Fair electricity bills
Ram
GPUs
SSDs
Jobs
Other people’s art and writing.
There are no benefit to this stuff. It is just grifting.
Also free and fair elections. Fidesz published a clearly AI-generated document claiming it was a leak from current oppposition party Tisza, as a real program.
true
This bubble is going to become the entire market, isn’t it. Until it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it. Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
After the bailouts at the expense of the poor, of course.
That’s the entire point. It’s a scam.
it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it
In 2008, banking sector and auto industry needed bailouts for the investor/financial class. Certainly, there was no need to layoff core banking employees, if government support was the last resort to keep the doors open AND gain controlling stake over future banking profitablity in a hopefully sustainable (low risk in addition to low climate/global destruction) fashion. The auto bailout did have harsher terms than the banking bailout, and recessions definitely harm the sector, but the bailouts were definitely focused on the executives/shareholders who have access to political friendships that result in gifts instead of truly needed lifelines, or wider redistribution of benefits from sustainable business.
The point, is that workforce is a “talking point” with no actual relevance in bailouts/too big to fail. That entire stock market wealth is concentrated in the sector, and that we have to all give them the rest of our money (and militarist backed surveillance freedom) or “China will win” at the only sector we pretend to have a competitive chance in, is why our establishment needs another “too big to fail moment”. We’ve started QE ahead of the crash this time.
Work force is relatively small in AI sector. Big construction, but relatively low operations employment. It displaces other hiring too.
AFAIK this has already been a problem, you can find Samsung M.2 SSDs for cheaper than Samsung SATA SSDs at the same capacity, because their cloud customers have all flown past classic SATA/SAS for NVME U.2 and U.3, which is much more similar to M.2 due to NVME.
I was planning on adding a big SSD array to my server which has a bunch of external 2.5 SAS slots, but it ended up being cheaper and faster to buy a 4 slot M.2 PCIe card and buy 4 M.2 drives instead.
Putting it on a x16 PCIe slot gives me 4 lanes per drive with bifurication, which gets me the advertised maximum possible speed on PCIe 4.
Whether or not the RAM surge will affect chip production capacity is the real issue. It seems all 3 OEMs could effectively reduce capacity for all other components after slugging billions of dollars into HBM RAM. It wouldn’t just be SSDs, anything that relies on the same supply chain could be heavily affected.
Exactly this. Micron ended their consumer RAM. Sansung here is just stopping producing something that is arguably outdated, and has a perfectly fine, already more available, most often cheaper or equivalent modern replacement.
I remember when 8TB SATA SSD was $350
pepperidge farm remembers
sure grandma, lets get you to bed
Glad that I recently bought a bunch of storage so that I’ll be covered for a good amount of time.
Bought a new pc in October and I’m soooo glad I did
My mind forgot that M.2 is probably more prevalent these days and that they’re not just shutting down for no reason.
Is it though? Pretty much every single current-gen mainboard still comes with a number of SATA ports.
Most people have one drive. Everything else is cloud based now. It’s horrible 😭
Everyone is going to buy M.2 SSDs first, and only buy SATA if they don’t have enough M.2 slots. I really doubt SATA SSDs are selling well.
With that said, I don’t see SATA going anywhere. It’s (comparatively low) bandwidth means you can throw a few ports on your board and not sacrifice much. For some quick math: a M.2 port back-hauled by PCIe 4.0 x4 has 7.8 GB/s of data lines going to it. While SATA 6.0 has only 0.75 GB/s of data lines going to it.
SATA is really convenient for larger storage, though. I keep my OS on nvmes, but I’ve got a couple of SATA drive and a hot swap bay for games, media, etc.
I’m still running SATA spinny disks for my big-ish data. I can’t afford a 16TB SSD…
I know that’s off topic, but HDDs are still a thing too.
Right‽ I don’t think anyone expected spinners to outlast SATA SSDs!
I’m very excited for the day I can replace my spinners with SSDs. That day is coming, but it is not today.
Even then, NVMe riser cards are a thing to just stick an NVMe drive in a spare PCIe slot.
Does require you to have the PCIe lanes for it, BIOS support for booting to PCIe (which Intel 6th gen core CPUs were the first to support. 4th gen never did but some had m.2 slots and NVMe support for secondary drives and the 5th gen X99s had some receive BIOS updates to support but that’s its own can of worms) and both Intel and AMD have historically been pretty bad about being stingy about PCIe lane availability
Plus to run more than a single NVMe on a single slot your motherboard either needs to support PCIe bifurcation which is almost exclusively an enterprise feature or they need to have the right lane configuration available to support that x16 slot handing out 4x4 lanes (or 2x8/2x4 for dual NVMe)
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Higher spec boards dont have this issue; Typically an issue with low and mid range boards due to cost savings.
Which just also shows why this is a very anti consumer move. Its trying to artifically push people to by new hardware because there hasn’t been significant enough changes to really warrant it. This then means more people who might have swapped off of windows to keep their existing hardware might end up having to upgrade then stick with their familiar windows platform so that the ai bubble can continue. Its completely fucked up
Who needs computers anyways?
Just go outside and play with real people
Cries in PC gamer
I’m glad I already have a good setup and shouldn’t be buying anything for a good while, but damn it. First the GPU, then RAM, now SSDs.
Next step, modular desktops as a concept will die, probably.
I hope people like locked-down black boxes they can’t upgrade and can’t run their own OS on in the future, so byebye Linux and BSD in that scenario outside of niche devices.
what’s baffling is that modular desktops are probably a better long-term money making strategy for hardware makers. When you can cycle gear with ease - the temptation to try something new will be bigger.
The AI builders must be buying all the fab time and components to go to the build outs.
Desktops will go first and fade as the entire production chain stops.
Notebooks will be next, at least PC parts have a premium price, notebooks are too cheap to avoid it for long. Game consoles will face the same pressure.
The supply shock is going to be as bad as COVID.
The supply shock is going to be as bad as COVID.
- No, it’ll be worse, it’ll be straight-up apocalyptic. GenAI grifters are trying to cause an apocalypse.
The leak comes after another report detailed that Samsung has raised DDR5 memory prices by up to 60%.
MF… And why they wind down SSD production this time? Last time was 2 years ago, because the SSD prices were low and they wanted to raise them (which happened).
Because AI is better for €€€
May all bankrupt when the bubble bursts.
we all know as soon as big bad chip daddy comes back with a big discount everyone not in this thread (and even some that are) will spread their cheeks and beg for more.
humans are dumb greedy little assholes that have zero willpower. that’s why it’s so easy to manipulate us.
Crap, I really wanted to buy a new external HD for my home server setup sometime soon.
HDDs should be fine. No?
Until next month when they cancel those too
I suppose so, it just takes forever to transfer files.
The ai crash is going to slap the tech industry hard
Not just the tech industry. A huge proportion of the US economy is made up of betting on AI. Like the crash of 2008 (but worse, some predict) it will hurt everyone but the richest, who will become even richer.
There are a number of simultaneous bubbles at the moment, the AI one being a lot like the Internet bubble of the late 90s but possibly worse (bigger share of GDP and it seems there is actually less value in most of the tech invested in as “AI” than on the Internet-related tech) and at the same time there is a financial debt bubble like in 2007 (in the US mainly around loans for car purchase, but more in general overall consumer indebtness has reached the 2007 levels), a worldwide realestate bubble (measured in terms of house-price to income ratios) and a stockmarket bubble measured in terms of P/E ratios, just to mention the biggest ones.
The risk is that when one blows the rest blow by contagium: something the 2008 Crash showed us is that in modern markets when there are sudden large losses on a asset class it pulls money over to cover them from all other asset classes, in turn creating downwards price pressure in those other asset classes, which in turn might cause price collapses there with large losses and that will pull even more money out from other asset classes. IMHO assets classes with historically high valuation not backed by fundamentals (for example stocks with P/E which are 10+ times the historical average) are likely to be far more likely to collapse when money gets pulled away from them to cover losses elsewhere. Also there is the panic factor: fearing exactly what I describe, many investors will preemptivelly sell their assets in those assets classes they feel as more speculative - i.e. less supported by fundamentals - possibly creating the very problem they fear in those markets by starting a stampede to the exits.
All this to say that I expect this one when it blows up will be bigger than 2008 and 2000, possibly bigger than both of those combined.
Is there anything a normal person can do to insulate against it to any degree?
Assets are more valuable than money is now, consider what can maintain fundamental value regardless of the economy
Food, weapons and armour?
Yet another chapter in the fucking AI craze started up by them fucking techbros.
Also, someone forgot that in some places in the world, people have to use older PCs with SATA drives. That, until their discontinuation announcements, Crucial and Samsung SATA drives were several tiers better than, say, those cheapo Ramsta drives.
Discontinuing outdated tech has nothing to do with AI. SATA SSDs need to be retired. NVME is superior and widely available.
Especially since you can get M.2 to SATA adapters, so people stuck with SATA only motherboards can still upgrade their storage.
Literally the same deal when companies stopped making IDE drives, people just used SATA to IDE adapters instead.
Do you know of any m.2 to SATA adapters that support NVMe? Or are these only for Sata M.2s?
Man, it sure would be helpful for my argument if I could.
I went back and checked the ones I was looking at, very helpful fine print stating “not for NVEM ssds”, so they all only work with mSATA M.2 SSDs, hell of a let down.
Tbh its not a bad call. Used to work somewhere that bought hundreds of 500gb SATA SSDs for laptop upgrades that just… sat on a shelf, because none of the new laptops ordered could even take a SATA drive. Hell, they’re Crucial branded so they’re probably collectable if micron keeps crucial dead for long enough.
That sucks. They probably could give them out to employees as a little bonus thing. Build a bit of goodwill. Rather than have them sit on a shelf.
Government. Ain’t nobody want to get caught “stealing” from the government (they’re probably going to be destroyed ten years after they’re completely obsolete). Waste of damn near a hundred terabytes of storage.
Syrup of Squill.
Aside: WTF are they using SSDs for?
LLM inference in the cloud is basically only done in VRAM. Rarely stale K/V cache is cached in RAM, but new attention architectures should minimize that. Large scale training, contrary to popular belief, is a pretty rare event most data centers and businesses are incapable of.
…So what do they do with so much flash storage!? Is it literally just FOMO server buying?
Storage. There aren’t enough hard drives, so datacentres are also buying up SSDs, since it’s needed to store training data.
since it’s needed to store training data.
Again, I don’t buy this. The training data isn’t actually that big, nor is training done on such a huge scale so frequently.
As we approach the theoretical error rate limit for LLMs, as proven in the 2020 research paper by OpenAI and corrected by the 2022 paper by Deepmind, the required training and power costs rise to infinity.
In addition to that, the companies might have many different nearly identical datasets to try to achieve different outcomes.
Things like books and wikipedia pages aren’t that bad, wikipedia itself compressed is only 25GB, maybe a few hundred petabytes could store most of these items, but images and videos are also valid training data and that’s much larger, and then there is readable code. On top of that, all user inputs have to be stored to reference them again later if the chatbot offers that service.
The lines used to produce vram also do ssd nand flash, so they make less ssds to make more vram
